tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207011.post6134072891435116462..comments2024-02-23T15:48:24.856-07:00Comments on The Cracked Crystal Ball II: Whipping Girl - Commentary Part IUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207011.post-46836105544313959172009-02-26T20:53:00.000-07:002009-02-26T20:53:00.000-07:00To me they both express the same idea, only one is...<I>To me they both express the same idea, only one is easier to test once we obtain additional information.</I><BR/><BR/>No, it's not "easier to test". You see, we already have significant evidence that points towards gender - in particular gender identity - having certain intrinsic qualities that any "test" must account for.<BR/><BR/>Ironically, one of the best examples of gender as more than construct is the case of David Reimer - which, although tragic, demonstrates that gender is clearly not a purely social construct. When you square that with the narratives of transsexuals in general, one finds similarly that transsexuals experience a similarly strong identity which leads them to need to transition. Pretty hard evidence to ignore, if you ask me. <BR/><BR/>Vis a vis the discussion around race versus gender, I would similarly suggest that the same evidence applies.<BR/><BR/><I>Sometimes the preferred outcome occurs in spite of poor procedures.</I><BR/><BR/>Eh? Sorry, but you missed my point here.MgShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11183962674882855323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207011.post-17197319560982098862009-02-26T19:27:00.000-07:002009-02-26T19:27:00.000-07:00Are you reading the book now? Why aren't you read...Are you reading the book now? Why aren't you reading the book now? Go read the book now, and report back. lol I am actually interested in what she has to say, so it's nice that you're doing this. <BR/><BR/>Kind of curious. How is this:<BR/><BR/><I>My take on her comments here is that she is speaking more about recognizing that gender has a certain essentialism to it that extends beyond those aspects which can be described as social constructs.</I><BR/><BR/>different from this:<BR/><BR/>1. Certain aspects of gender are natural.<BR/><BR/>To me they both express the same idea, only one is easier to test once we obtain additional information. <BR/><BR/><I>From this, she is inferring that until society acknowledges the validity and value of the feminine as intrinsically as it does the masculine, that there is unlikely to be meaningful progress towards gender equality.</I><BR/><BR/>And I already explained why that isn't productive without more information. <BR/><BR/><I>I think that the point here is that while ethnic identity is a social construct, gender is only partially a social construct, but it also has some intrinsic qualities that cannot be described as constructs.</I><BR/><BR/>And what is the evidence?<BR/><BR/>Read the book! lol You notice I look for evidence quite a bit? Assertions without supporting evidence are merely opinions.<BR/><BR/><I>The argument that you claim is never made is in fact a key element of the Canadian notion of multiculturalism.</I><BR/><BR/>Sometimes the preferred outcome occurs in spite of poor procedures.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207011.post-88669340146668521772009-02-23T17:50:00.000-07:002009-02-23T17:50:00.000-07:002. Progess towards equality is dependent upon "emp...<I>2. Progess towards equality is dependent upon "empowering" the more girly aspects of our inherent nature.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not so sure that Serano is so 'cut and dried' about it. <BR/><BR/>My take on her comments here is that she is speaking more about recognizing that gender has a certain essentialism to it that extends beyond those aspects which can be described as social constructs. <BR/><BR/>From this, she is inferring that until society acknowledges the validity and value of the feminine as intrinsically as it does the masculine, that there is unlikely to be meaningful progress towards gender equality.<BR/><BR/><I>Nobody ever makes the logical argument that "empowering the more ethnic aspects of our inherent nature" will produce racial equality.</I><BR/><BR/>I think that the point here is that while ethnic identity <I>is</I> a social construct, gender is only <I>partially</I> a social construct, but it also has some intrinsic qualities that cannot be described as constructs.<BR/><BR/>The argument that you claim is never made is in fact a key element of the Canadian notion of multiculturalism.MgShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11183962674882855323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207011.post-46404977358394870942009-02-23T10:47:00.000-07:002009-02-23T10:47:00.000-07:00Quoting myself:2. Progess towards equality is depe...Quoting myself:<BR/><BR/><I>2. Progess towards equality is dependent upon "empowering" the more girly aspects of our inherent nature.</I><BR/><BR/>Nobody ever makes the logical argument that "empowering the more ethnic aspects of our inherent nature" will produce racial equality. <BR/><BR/>That argument isn't made, because it's obvious that solving racial inequality involves changing the attitudes and perceptions of the perpetrators of racial bigotry. Any attempt to focus on the victim's behavior is simply blaming the victim. <BR/><BR/>I should make a post about this, thanks for the epiphany.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207011.post-12477583018396637732009-02-23T10:28:00.000-07:002009-02-23T10:28:00.000-07:00Oh your perspective on this topic sounds very inte...Oh your perspective on this topic sounds very interesting, thanks for letting me know about it. Look forward to reading more.<BR/><BR/><I>In this book, I break with past attempts in feminism and queer theory to dismiss femininity by characterizing it as "artificial" or "performance". Instead, I argue that certain aspects fo femininity (as well as masculinity) are natural and can both precede socialization and supersede biological sex. ... No form of gender equity can ever truly be achieved until we first work to empower femininity itself. - p. 6</I><BR/><BR/>So she makes two assertions: <BR/><BR/>1. Certain aspects of gender are natural.<BR/><BR/>2. Progess towards equality is dependent upon "empowering" the more girly aspects of our inherent nature.<BR/><BR/>Have you ever noticed how many times the same thing can be stated different ways? I only put it into logical form, yanno... lol It's easier to weed out the nonsense that way.<BR/><BR/>Twisty has written extensively on "empowerful women" who collude with sexist dogma, so I'm wondering what practical applications Julie has in mind. Too often it turns into "if we empower the victim enough, we won't notice she's still being victimized".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com